[Debate] What Qualifies as Roleplay Proficiency?

[Keegan]

I disagree against the paragraphs because for starters people could make a paragraph a sentence, there is really no real set limit for a paragraph, reading the post of Sammius McGennien makes sense about the part that you become more creative and for one having longer posts means that you take more time to write which makes your level of RPing better then that of somebodies who has one liners and spends nearly no time posting, time can also make you become more specialized and once you get good at Long posts maybe it becomes second nature, its based on if you have time

[sunshine]

Jul 29, 2009 4:09:56 GMT -8 Artemis said:

Jul 28, 2009 20:40:39 GMT -8 sunshine said:

Personally, I think "proficiency" is a mix of both content and length, depending on where you are posting, of course. I absolutely don't agree with boards that have ridiculously high word requirements and judge based almost entirely on length, but I do think that it's important to set a loose minimum. At my roleplay board, we have a loose minimum of three decent paragraphs, simply because we want to know that you can keep up with our members who do prefer to post more lengthy threads. This is especially true since we consider ourselves more of a writing board than just a roleplay board; we want to see quality, but we also want to know that you won't waste our time and effort by replying with a 200 word response to our 500 words. Does that make sense?

However, on the other hand, an applicant at our site could give us a full-length novel that they spent a year on, but if it was inaccurate, badly-written, or just.. you know, stupid, it would still get denied. Soooo, a little of both is what I'm saying. :]

Would it be possible to instate some sort of guideline that would let members request what kind of roleplay they are interested in participating in? For example, members can post that they want only partners who can post a three paragraph minimum, or a more free roleplay. It would more people happy, I'm sure. That may be a 'loose minimum' in some eyes, but to others it may seem like pandering to the elite under the facade of free roleplay. Three paragraphs isn't bad, but you can have that option without forcing everyone to meet that minimum, because having less certainly doesn't mean that anyone is a bad roleplayer. ;]

I never said anyone who wrote less was a bad roleplayer, but honestly, we don't really want members who can't bother to write three paragraphs for us. We're very laid back about it; if you give us two decent ones we're not going to yell at you or anything. If we expected much higher, than sure, your suggestion would be a more fitting one, but as it is I don't think three paragraphs is really much of anything. xD I guess it just has to do with our board's atmosphere and the kinds of posts our members want to respond to.

[Gia_Sesshoumaru]

How do you define any of these levels of roleplay?

For me, beginning is stuff that's only a few sentences - no thought, no feelings, just basic action. No description. These posts, as I said, usually come out to only a few sentences, and are mostly, if not all, dialogue. Intermediate would give some basic thoughts, feelings, and description, but nothing in a great detail. These posts can be a paragraph, or two, sometimes even three at best. Advanced/elite roleplays post about three paragarphs at a minimum, and usually contain a lot of description, thoughts, and feelings.

Do you use word counts and other requirements, or are you more relaxed?

Yes, on my sites, there is a Word Count. It's 500 characters, though we push for more, we don't require it. Most people do it anyway, as my main site is a High Intermediate/Advanced roleplay. We can be a tad elitest, bust most people who choose to stick around prefer that because the level of writing is higher, and it pushes them to be better, something most people like, which is why the stay or come back.

Does your forum have these requirements to begin with?

Yes, they do. It's a requirement, in my opinion. I won't make a sit without them, and wouldn't join one either.

[Nacku]

In my experience all the Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Caribbean and other epic stories like that always had the most content from players/characters. I've noted that in smaller ones, it's like watching a bunch of silliness and if one person can really play a role, then they're living it! Erm, and those are the ones that kinda take it far too seriously and are needy. I swear there's a "walking time bomb" out there!

[grieves and squick]

we want to see quality, but we also want to know that you won't waste our time and effort by replying with a 200 word response to our 500 words. Does that make sense?

No, it doesn't, not to me.

That 200 word post might have more interesting things going on than the 500 word posts. You're equating quality with quantity. It's not how long they are, it's what's in them.

There's also the issue of where in the thread the post is and how much the character has already been RPed. If it's a new thread and new character, an intro post might be very long because there's background info to establish before we know who this character is and where they are coming from. If it's a post in the middle of a dialogue thread, or whatever, it will likely be shorter.

Nothing drags the action or dialogue in a thread down like lots of long posts saturated with descriptions.

How exactly do you RP out a scene full of snappy dialogue when everyone has to post 200 words per post? You don't. You can't. Scenes like that can be some of the best scenes or ways to develop character in a story {And essentially, RPing is a way of cooperatively writing a story} but with word minimums, you're locking your game out of them.

I am a n00b. I run a n00b game. Perhaps we're a dying breed. We post one and two liners with blissful reverie. Sometimes my posts are long, other times medium, other {and plenty of} times, real damn short.

To each their own, but IMO some of the posts I'm the proudest of were less than 10 words long.

[sunshine]

Jul 31, 2009 21:25:07 GMT -8 grieves and squick said:

we want to see quality, but we also want to know that you won't waste our time and effort by replying with a 200 word response to our 500 words. Does that make sense?

How exactly do you RP out a scene full of snappy dialogue when everyone has to post 200 words per post? You don't. You can't. Scenes like that can be some of the best scenes or ways to develop character in a story {And essentially, RPing is a way of cooperatively writing a story} but with word minimums, you're locking your game out of them.

Roleplay logs! Used for shorter interactions/snippy scenes/anything that doesn't necessarily merit an entire thread of its own. We use them a lot!

And honestly, I'm not saying everyone posts 500 words constantly or that everyone even expects that... we're extremely laid back with our posting requirements, especially if there's something going on like an event or activity in which the plot or action needs to move a little bit faster. With regular posts, though, it's a general sort of unspoken rule of etiquette that it is polite to at least try to match the effort of the person before you, not including intro posts. It's not a strict requirement, really, but an encouragement. It seems to work out. :]]]

[grieves and squick]

RP logs, you mean like in AIM chatrooms?

Those ROCK!

Can be hard to get everyone in a thread into it though at one time, that's the only down side. The members of our forum currently don't do this--I do keep bugging them though. AIM RPing {to be posted later} is one of my favourite ways to RP! It supplements RPing by individual posts very well.

[My Kitty Twofer]

I think that RP posts should be judged on quality not quantity[/b]. Long posts describe a lot and win brownie points with some admins and mods, but I find etremely long posts boring. Not that i like one sentence posts, though.

[grieves and squick]

The long posts that get boring do so usually when the person wants to make their character do something, but the situation does not allow them to do very much at once without other characters acting after them to further the action. But the word minimum is still there. So what they do is pad their posts with lots of filler, almost always description and long rambles about their thoughts. Neither one does much of anything to further the story. IMO that makes the quality go down, not up. A post that conveys the same thing in 50 words that another one does in 500 words is, I feel, a better post.

[» lady j !]

As an admin of many forums and an avid roleplayer, I agree that RP posts should be judged on quality and not quantity, but at the same time, a word minimum (every forum I co-own or admin on has a limit of 300-350 words) ensures that the person replying has something to reply to, which is often an issue with shorter posts. But, at the same time, there is over-posting. The act in which a member purposely beefs up post with a bunch of crap that isn't needed or is being repeated over and over and over again. It makes posting entirely pointless and the replier doesn't appreciate it much either.

[My Kitty Twofer]

I think that RP posts should be judged on quality not quantity[/b]. Long posts describe a lot and win brownie points with some admins and mods, but I find etremely long posts boring. Not that i like one sentence posts, though.

[Sic In Principio]

Jul 31, 2009 21:25:07 GMT -8 grieves and squick said:

we want to see quality, but we also want to know that you won't waste our time and effort by replying with a 200 word response to our 500 words. Does that make sense?

No, it doesn't, not to me.

That 200 word post might have more interesting things going on than the 500 word posts. You're equating quality with quantity. It's not how long they are, it's what's in them.

There's also the issue of where in the thread the post is and how much the character has already been RPed. If it's a new thread and new character, an intro post might be very long because there's background info to establish before we know who this character is and where they are coming from. If it's a post in the middle of a dialogue thread, or whatever, it will likely be shorter.

Nothing drags the action or dialogue in a thread down like lots of long posts saturated with descriptions.

How exactly do you RP out a scene full of snappy dialogue when everyone has to post 200 words per post? You don't. You can't. Scenes like that can be some of the best scenes or ways to develop character in a story {And essentially, RPing is a way of cooperatively writing a story} but with word minimums, you're locking your game out of them.

I am a n00b. I run a n00b game. Perhaps we're a dying breed. We post one and two liners with blissful reverie. Sometimes my posts are long, other times medium, other {and plenty of} times, real damn short.

To each their own, but IMO some of the posts I'm the proudest of were less than 10 words long.

i completely agree with this. How can you write 500 words to something that should only take a small paragraph to respond to? I've been on a forum where the posts are pages upon pages long. Why? If a someone in real life is talking to you, can you respond to "do you like Chicken or Beef more?" with a half an hour spleal about how you like one or the other?

Well, you could, but that's just insane! On my forum, even though i say

All posts in MISSION forums (does not include the base) should be at least ONE PARAGRAPH in length (4-6 sentences). this is because longer posts are more pleasant to read and reply to.

I also say:

The occasional, 1 or 2 sentence posts are ok, if the situation does not grant the ability to create a in depth post. Also, on occasion, it will be OK to type up shorter posts.

As you can see, I do have a posting limit, but that applys to a combat RP where being in depth should be required to help the GMs figure out exactly where everyone is and how to accurately and fairly GM posts, but also i allow my member to take it easy and NOT bound them to long posts.

[grieves and squick]

I think the latter is worse than the former. When we get someone posting stuff that gives the other players nothing to respond to, and this happens often, we let them know they have to improve their act. Usually this is not a problem, because there are other players involved who will also post and further the action, and also, they know that unless they do something to give the other person something to reply to, the thread won't go anywhere.

I just feel that those word minimums are, in this regard, kind of like killing a flea with a sledgehammer, and the cure is worse than the disease. But at the same time, the minimums impose a whole different style of RPing on the forum, and some people prefer this style.

[» lady j !]

Aug 1, 2009 13:16:43 GMT -8 Sic In Principio said:

i completely agree with this. How can you write 500 words to something that should only take a small paragraph to respond to? I've been on a forum where the posts are pages upon pages long. Why? If a someone in real life is talking to you, can you respond to "do you like Chicken or Beef more?" with a half an hour spleal about how you like one or the other?

Thought is very important though. What happens in 700 words could be no speech at all but internal thought and action and that can be very inspiring and powerful. Letting the other roleplayer know what your character is thinking, and them allowing you to see inside their head, allows for further plotting.

For example, I play Chuck Bass on a Gossip Girl forum - if I didn't have his thoughts and beliefs and desires to write about, he would be an empty shell and a few witty lines. The ladies I'm roleplaying with don't want that, because they've roleplayed with me before and know I can do better.

[Sic In Principio]

Aug 1, 2009 13:21:25 GMT -8 » lady j ! said:

Aug 1, 2009 13:16:43 GMT -8 Sic In Principio said:

i completely agree with this. How can you write 500 words to something that should only take a small paragraph to respond to? I've been on a forum where the posts are pages upon pages long. Why? If a someone in real life is talking to you, can you respond to "do you like Chicken or Beef more?" with a half an hour spleal about how you like one or the other?

Thought is very important though. What happens in 700 words could be no speech at all but internal thought and action and that can be very inspiring and powerful. Letting the other roleplayer know what your character is thinking, and them allowing you to see inside their head, allows for further plotting.

For example, I play Chuck Bass on a Gossip Girl forum - if I didn't have his thoughts and beliefs and desires to write about, he would be an empty shell and a few witty lines. The ladies I'm roleplaying with don't want that, because they've roleplayed with me before and know I can do better.

true, but sometimes, the character's thought has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. I've seen this one trooper ready to go out on a patrol when he starts thinking about dogs or something. He was just reminiscing about his dog, sure, that could mean something, if people were talking about pets or something, but it wasn't. There wasn't even any other mention of other people missing their loved ones or anything.